Good Manners vs. Good Nutrition

[KarenHo]

Yesterday was a special Mother's Day Tea at my daughters nursery school.  All of the children in her class worked so hard on cards, gifts and songs.  There was a special snack salad, meat/cheese roll-ups, croissants, ice cream sundaes and lemonade that the children served to their moms. 

Due to our families food sensitivities (we are all gluten-free), I am very compulsive about reading labels.  As it was, the only thing we could eat was the salad and the plain ice cream.  The problem came with the lemonade... a gallon container made with high fructose corn syrup.  My sweet little daughter brought us both a cup and was so pleased with herself for picking something we would both like.  Yes, I could have asked for water, but it just didn't seem like the gracious thing to do.

So the question is, where would you draw the line between good nutrition and good manners? Have you run into a situation where it was best to eat something unhealthy just to be polite?    Do you ever feel like you are giving into peer pressure or being to stringent with your diet?

I did drink the lemonade.  Consequently, I was so much hungrier that usual at dinner.  I have come to learn the HFCS really affects my appetite.  No matter how much I eat and how full my tummy feels, I still feel hungry.   Anyhow, I got through it (I snacked on fruit and tea for the rest of the evening) and my daughter and I had a wonderful time at her Tea. 

[KellyT]

Great topic for discussion!!!

I think this happens more often to those of us with children as we end up in situations where food is the star. (Holidays, Easter, birthday parties, Halloween, etc.) Even a visit to the bank...I have had many times where the bank employees came out to give my children a "treat" for being well behaved (chocolate and hard candy).

We were at Whole Foods a couple of weeks ago and my kids helped pick up a display that fell over in the wind. The lady employee was thankful and ran inside to get them something. Before we could find a nice way to stop her, she returned with box juice drinks and the WF version of cheesy fish crackers. Both of them contained ingredients we definitely do not eat. We thanked her. Two of my kids were excited (10.5 yr old girl and 6 yr old) and ate theirs right away. I let the 2yr old try the juice (she's milk allergic, so the crackers were out of the question). My 10.5 yr old son wasn't interested. In private later we all talked about what was in them and why it was a "once in a while thing" as opposed to something I would purchase later. I try not to label stuff like this a "treat" as it sounds like it is a desirable thing.

Basically, I am not sure what to do in social situations. I was at a wake with my extended family last weekend and there was not one thing I wanted to eat. My sister made the food and she would never buy organic. She is the "Costco/WalMart how cheap can I find it" type of gal. A lot of the food had GMO's. I simply did not eat anything. No one noticed. However, my almost 11 yr old daughter loaded up her plate 3 times. (Her actual food choices would have been healthy ones if the food had been a better quality.) I don't want the kids to feel so deprived that they end up with a horrendous diet when they are teenagers or live on their own. We talk often about healthy choices and why we buy (or don't buy) certain things. Otherwise, I am at a loss.

I am interested to see what others say. 

[AmandaL]

This is a good topic.

My kids are 4 and 5 yrs.  I pack a lunch for them and bring it with us prior to going to playdates.  I always say, to not offend the other mother, "I'm going to pack a lunch for my kids can I pack one for your kid(s) too?"   This is a great way to avoid the situation all together AND, once you get there a good way to talk to the other parent about food.



My son entered public kindergarten this year and it was the first time we really had this problem.  Once a month at our school the PTA holds a "coffee hour" breakfast prior to class.  Its a fundraiser and the teachers/staff remind the kids incessantly.   To support the school and to meet the parents, I went.  ASTONISHING.  ALL DONUTS AND junky yogurt, juice and coffee too.   I told the kids they could have a piece of fruit (although they were salivating over the rainbow sprinkles).  When we sat down, some older boys came up and started making fun of my otherwise clueless kids. Teasing them about not getting a donut and having to eat fruit instead.  So sad.   Since then, we have been in this situation a lot.  It leaves my boys feeling a little abnormal which we talk about at home.   

A couple important things have happened.  1. I went and talked to the teacher about nutrition.  She, a dieter, was very interested and supportive.  She lets my son, who is very out going, give little mini-food presentations in his class.  That has really helped with the peer pressure.  She's really taken off with my suggestions and has been talking to other parents about their snack choices.

2. I have relaxed on what I allow the kids to eat when we're in a situation like this. Now, prior to "coffee hour" I feed them eggs and spinach at home.  I let them pick out one small donut or a large and I cut it in half.   We also talk about how we are having a dessert or treat in the morning and how thats unusual or a special treat.

I have lost sleep over this issue and my theory is now:

LABEL IT CORRECTLY.  What other people call a snack/breakfast food I call a treat or dessert.  so my kids are now aware if they have been given a "treat" or "dessert" instead of a true snack/breakfast. 

DONT BRING IT INTO THE HOUSE.  They know just because "friend A" has junk at their home it doesn't come here.

WE TALK ABOUT HEALTHY CHOICES A LOT.  They understand why I don't allow excessive junk.

Also this is a little twisted, but this how I parent.  My neighbor's cat had diabetes and she had to give it an insulin shot everyday. I took my kids over and talked to them about what it means to have diabetes and have to take insulin. She showed them how to give the shots.  The cat eventually died.  It was a good example of the consequences of poor food choices in a way that a little person could see and understand.  Now they both want to be Vets. win-win!


     

[MiraD]

This is indeed a tough issue.  In our house we came to an understanding that these items would not come into our home (artificial colors, additives, HFCS, MSG, etc).  When we are out of the house and they are offered something my youngest (the only one home) makes  her own choices but more and more often declines because her palate has changed. 

I will say that I try to make sure we have suitable snacks in the car or my purse in case anyone gets really hungry but we also try not to be hyper about it because we are surrounded by a world that does not fully embrace this. 

My philosophy is that we make the best choices we can both at home and out in the world.

[AlisonA]

This is a big issue, isn't it?! :-) I find in those situations that we can go in EXPECTING that we will be offered foods that we don't eat normally. Unhealthy foods are unfortunately a part of the American culture, and we're inevitably faced with them in certain circumstances. My philosophy is to lighten the reigns a little bit, but not so much that it makes me sick or regretful. I always make a plan before stepping into a party or potluck where I know there won't be much food I eat on a regular basis. I set my boundaries - Like: "I won't have anything that contains gluten, cause I know it will make me sick, but I will allow a small portion of some of the other foods offered (maybe it's potato chips, sour cream dip, or chocolate)". That way, I don't feel like an outsider, but I have a plan that I stick to in case I start to get caught up in wanting food that I know will cause problems later. Having small amounts now and again won't harm us, if we eat right on a regular basis. It's also interesting to notice the effects, as you did, after consuming something that we know is harmful to us. It's becomes an experiment. It's always a good idea to also ask your kids how THEY feel (without judgment) after sugar or wheat. :-)

[LynneConde]

Hi,

This is a very good question which reminds me of an old proverb: "It is not that which goes into the mouth of a man which defiles him, it is that which comes out." If I (an eating for health gal) go to an event where my hostess serves me a donut and coffee (no other choice), I will thank her, try to chose the donut with no frosting and focus on the hostess and event. This happened to me as I was working to get a childhood obesity program into a children's after school club. It was the first meeting, and at later meetings, after she learned about healthy eating, she served fresh fruit. I told myself that one donut every five years would not harm me.We have now been friends for three years and have served many children wholesome foods together.

The point is this: If we are initially rude to our hosts, there may not be another meeting. If given time and a chance, we can educate others and help them to eat for health, but if we are judgmental and condemning, only alienation may occur. Generally, most hosts are trying to please (serve) us, not poison us, right? Healthy eating is a long process....be kind.
Food for thought,
Lynne

[Marnina]

This topic seems to be coming up so much lately, thanks for opening up the discussion!  This is such an important issue.

In my family and my group of friends, there are only a few of us that try very hard to eat an organic whole foods diet.  Most people are pretty interested in it, but are still quite a few steps away.  I have found myself in many situations feeling almost snobby about my food choices.  Since organic food is expensive, a lot of people feel like eating this way is an unaffordable luxury. Also I usually pride myself on being very open to others' environments and the food is a big part of that...having to say no to food that is so graciously offered to me is very hard. 

But we eat this way for our health and the health of our family, so it is worth it to try to find a way to accomodate this diet as often as possible.  I have been a vegetarian for 14 yrs and have been able to eat amongst other people with no problem..if there isn't a veggie dish I usually can find something in the side dishes.  And even if people don't understand how on earth I can live without meat, if I don't make a big deal out of it, they don't either.  But I have found that when it is a specific diet that people are typically very understanding.  I am going to to try to approach my Eating For Health practices in the very same way. 

By telling people that you (and your family) are eating a special diet, it takes the exchange from "We don't eat this or that..." to a place of we are trying to eat a "S.O.U.L." foods (seasonal organic unprocessed local foods) diet.  I have found so far that when it is put that way, it actually opens up the conversation to be able to share information and ideas about this way of eating.

I have found it's all about the attitude.

So now we always pack a tote full of food for ourselves and to share.  And just eat the best possible choices if it really isn't appropriate to eat our own food..small portions and in moderation.

We had a celebration on Friday night and my friend and I made a SOUL foods meal-delicious by the way.  One of our guests was eating a RAW foods diet and so his plate at the dinner table had the salad that I had made, some of the raw veggies from the appetizers platter (w/salsa on them,) and a banana in the peel.  It was hilarious looking.  BUT of course we all supported him and wanted to know all about eating RAW foods.

I know that when children are involved it must be much harder.  It seems like the parents that I know that are dealing with this issue make sure that they eat healthy foods in their home always and are much more lenient when out around other food.  You just can't control it at all times.  Education and exposure is the key, and hopefully our chidren will make healthy choices because of it.

Thanks for sharing ideas about this...in my experience lifestyles need to be inclusive or they are very hard to sustain.

-Marnina

[MariroseP]

Great discussion! 

I have a 9-year old son and we have changed our way of eating dramatically in the last year.  He is very conscious of what is "good and good for you" and what isn't.  However, when we go pick up the dry-cleaning, our sweet and wonderful dry cleaner always gives "the boy" a lolly pop.  He always graciously accepts but I don't always let him eat it.  We inevitably have a lengthy conversation in the car about why he might not be able to eat the lolly pop.  Sometimes my explanation is that it's full of bad stuff like HFCS and articifial coloring and flavors and sometimes I might say it's just too close to dinner time.

Everytime I want to take it away from him with a dramatic snatch and "no, it's not good for you," I remember that as a child, we were given wine to drink, mixed with soda water.  We were never forbidden to drink wine or alcohol in my family (my mother didn't drink at all and my father drank maybe one small glass of wine at dinner and that was all the drinking he did).  In college, I lived at home and my mother would fix me a drink when she thought I looked too stressed pouring over my books!  When I visted my dorm friends, they would make fools of themselves by drinking too much and then running half-naked down the halls shouting at the top of their lungs.  I always wondered why they behaved that way. 

When I forbid my son to eat or drink something because it's not good for him, I wonder if I am setting him up to be like those drunken fools in college.  I am hoping that I am shaping him so that he puts the reigns on his own food and drink choices.  I don't want the Twinkie to be such a mystery to him that he really, really wants the Twinkie, or glazed donut, or whatever, when mom isn't looking. 

The other day he came home from a weekend playdate and said, "mom, I don't feel good and I think it was because I put whipped cream on the strawberries we had!"  He put 2x2 together on that and I was thrilled.

Of course, this may all change tomorrow, next week or next month, when he turns 10 but for now, I think that not prohibiting him from eating whatever his buddies have on a playdate but giving him a few alternatives to take with him if he wants, is a good meeting ground.   This is obviously not so easy if your children have food allergies, sensitivies...

Marirose

[KellyT]

  When I forbid my son to eat or drink something because it's not good for him, I wonder if I am setting him up to be like those drunken fools in college.  I am hoping that I am shaping him so that he puts the reigns on his own food and drink choices.  I don't want the Twinkie to be such a mystery to him that he really, really wants the Twinkie, or glazed donut, or whatever, when mom isn't looking. 
Marirose

Exactly! That is how I feel too.

There are some foods that we never ate (like soda) and then there are some foods we used to eat a few years ago that we don't anymore (like Eggo waffles). The foods we never ate we also did not make a big deal about if we were at a special event and the kids were offered it. They found that they didn't really have a taste for it. The foods they used to eat were substituted over time (first healthier waffles then homemade whole wheat pancakes then healthier homemade whole wheat pancakes so far), so that they lost a taste for the other. We also talked a lot about ingredients as well.

Thanks for your post!

[KarenHo]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I try very hard to maintain a balance between good nutrition and letting them have "junk" food.  Being gluten-free is a blessing because 90% of processed junk food contains wheat.  My 5.5 year old daughter remembers vividly how badly it made her feel before her diagnosis.  I can honestly use the excuse of "I just don't know if it is gluten free" for just about anything that has too many ingredients. 

LABEL IT CORRECTLY.  What other people call a snack/breakfast food I call a treat or dessert.  so my kids are now aware if they have been given a "treat" or "dessert" instead of a true snack/breakfast. 

Thanks - this is a great idea.  Doughnuts are now dessert! Even the gluten free ones...

I really enjoy hearing everyones stories about their good manners versus good nutrition dilemmas.  I makes me feel like I am not swimming upstream by myself.  Thanks for sharing.

[BruceM]

I know I'm "late to the party" on this one but felt I had to chime in.  It sounds like most of you have younger children; I have two older, 17 & 20.  The best thing you can do for your children is to educate them and keep educating them.  When they are young, you control most if not all of what they eat.  As they get older you'll have less and less control.  It's not enough to teach them healthy from unhealthy, you need to teach them how to chose well in tough environments; like out to lunch during hight school with friends.  If the children are educated, they will make good choices.  If all they've heard was no, no, no then I'm not so sure.  If you think healthy eating is hard, wait until you have to deal with smoking, drugs and alcohol; HFCS won't seem so bad then.   

[RobinH]

I think Marnina has a really astute point- it is not what you say but how you say it.  I have found with setting boundaries of any kind, if you do so with the utmost kindness, it is almost impossible for someone to take it as snobby. 
I don't have any children but appreciate the challenges all of you have discussed.  Some other ideas that may or may not work for those of you with children, but certainly will for those of you without:
If I am going to an event where I know the food will not be high quality, I eat beforehand and just say I am not hungry because I had a late lunch or I have a funky stomach. 
If I am eating somewhere and there is something I don’t want to eat, I say I am allergic. (I expand my definition of allergic to include food sensitivities).
Finally, most people know I am studying nutrition.  Part of our studies involve experimenting with how foods make us feel and often I just tell people I am doing an experiment for my nutrition program and am omitting (fill in the blank).  This really opens up the discussion, as nutrition is a hot topic now! 

[KellyT]

Finally, most people know I am studying nutrition.  Part of our studies involve experimenting with how foods make us feel and often I just tell people I am doing an experiment for my nutrition program and am omitting (fill in the blank).  This really opens up the discussion, as nutrition is a hot topic now! 

Robin - What a neat idea! I would have never thought of that. Thanks for sharing. 

[RobinH]

Kelly,

You are so welcome! 
By the way, I really related to what you wrote because my brother is also one of those buy cheap food people and thinks I am INSANE for spending money on organic food!  And yet when he comes to my house he is blown away by how good everything tastes.  Go figure!

Take care,
Robin

[SylviaG]

Hey Karen,

     Wow, did you hit a hot topic. I am a Kindergarten teacher so I am actually in a great position to not only set a nutritional example for my students and their parents, but I am also able to educate parents on the healthier choice snackfoods (like fruits and veggies) and acceptable lunch foods.
     I'm sorry, but when it comes to the health of my students, I am a bit on the strong opinionated side of the "Good Nutrition vs Good Manners" topic. I have a long list of what is not acceptable to bring to school for snack or lunch...and I tell parents up front that I will send it home. I rather the kids go hungry than eat some of the junk parents consider food. However, I have also food that because I have such a strong stand on good nutrition and because I ask about food allergies parents really respect my wishes as their child's teacher and they do try to send healthy food. I don't think parents mean to make such poor food choices for their kids, they just get caught up in the hustle and bustle of life, fast convenient foods, and the hype that sells junk. Let's face it- commercials work.
     In social situations with my family and friends, they all know that I am trying to undo the many years of poor food choices and so many have decided to join my crusade of a healthier lifestyle - but boy, does it take time to break some bad food habits.
     Like one of the other responders to this topic, I have a brother that doesn't spend his food budget on healthier whole foods...but when he comes to my house, boy does he enjoy the fruits and veggies that I have. He always wonders why my food taste so good, I always tell him the same thing, "this is what real food tastes like, you are enjoying whole foods - not chemicals and pesticides". He just laughs and asks what else do you have?
     I have also learned to eat before social parties and I always have water with me. If their are healthy choices available to me then I do indulge but I do not over indulge.
     I guess for me, I will forego my good manners as politely as possible because my health is important to me. Too many times we love our family and friends to death and clogged arteries by serving unhealthy food. I can't do that anymore and I'm trying to teach my family and friends that social gatherings that involve food can still include great tasting foods when made with healthy food choices.

Sylvia